File talk:Phaaze.jpg
Fan art? It's not fan art. It's clearly an image enhancement. And fi you classify that as fan art you might as well delete all the rendered models that have been uploaded too. You've never talked about this before, and the Image Policy allows image enhancements. [[User:Hellkaiserryo12|''Hell''Kaiserryo12]]ADMIN] (Talk• ) 20:30, May 11, 2010 (UTC) :HK, this is a direct-feed of the image in the game. By changing it, you are altering the values of the intended art piece. We can't just go around making Photoshop-filter variants of our images to "enhance" original works. ChozoBoy http://metroid.wikia.com ADMIN (Talk/ ) 04:28, May 12, 2010 (UTC) ::ChozoBoy, I'm afraid what you are saying is completely argumentative. Be it that, say, the image was altered by simply being transferred here, would you be making the same argument? That it should not be allowed to bear a copyright because it was affected via (what I will call) a mid-transference photonic displacement. If an image has been altered to a point where its hue shadings were affected, I would agree. However, the fact of the matter is that said alterations did in fact not occur, in fact, only brightness and/or contrast has been affected, of which, can all be achieved by simply changing one's television settings. In other words there is quite literally no reason this image should be labeled as Fanart. I will be reverting it back to Hellkaiserryo12's version, simply because of the potential variances between television preferences. If in fact you still do not agree, please tell me, I have no problem calling up an RfC over the matter of whether the editing of an image's brightness is grounds for labeling it as Fanart. [[User:Piratehunter|''P''ir''a''te''h''un''t''er'']]{ADMIN} (Talk• •Logs) 07:43, May 12, 2010 (UTC) :::My understanding is that MDb has uploaded direct rips from the game. I don't think that wonky television settings are very applicable to this type of argument when all of MDb's other images are consistant with the same works uploaded by Andrew Jones, for instance. (Aside from one or two pieces that he had obviously altered from/into the copy that was included in the software.) '''ChozoBoy http://metroid.wikia.com ADMIN (Talk/ ) 20:16, May 12, 2010 (UTC) ::I disagree. This image is more likely a screenshot (albiet a poor quality one) from the game cutscene sequence. The only reason I haven't uploaded a better one is because the high quality videos are in Widescreen display, which cuts the length of the image too much. This is probably a screenshot from a 4:3 television. I play the game on a 4:3 television, so I should know. Plus I was editing the image to fit in with Phaaze's actual colour scheme and improve the rubbish quality. That's clearly not against the image policy. I notice you haven't tagged the Bryyo, Elysia, Norion, etc images as fan art? They have all been enhanced. And if, like you said, the image was a rip, wouldn't that class it as fan art? Because MdB is not an official source. [[User:Hellkaiserryo12|'''''HellKaiserryo12]]ADMIN] (Talk• ) 20:41, May 12, 2010 (UTC) :ChozoBoy, just so you know, this image is merely meant to be used to represent the planet Phaaze. Not to be an archived image of in-game. [[User:Piratehunter|''P''ir''a''te''h''un''t''er'']]{ADMIN} (Talk• •Logs) 20:54, May 12, 2010 (UTC) :Exactly. This isn't fanart. Sure it may be darkening it a little too much, but if you wanna see fanart, go look at Arm's photoshop of the Plasma Trooper. --[[User:RoyboyX|''Ro''y''bo''y]][[User talk:RoyboyX|X'']]{ADMIN} 21:19, May 12, 2010 (UTC) Slow down, guys! This isn't from any cutscenes, gameplay, or models. This is concept art. A 2-D image that was specifically designed by Retro Studios to look the way it did before you shopped it. Take a look. ChozoBoy http://metroid.wikia.com ADMIN (Talk/ ) 05:13, May 13, 2010 (UTC) :My point still stands. The purpose of the picture is to be a depiction of the planet Phaaze, not to be a piece of archived artwork. And the matter is, that HK's slight editing of the picture did in fact make it into a more desirable image for use in showing the appearance of Phaaze. It may not be the original work, (and I believe my argument to that is located above), but it is better suited for the reasons of which we need it (to depict Phaaze in the best possible way)... [[User:Piratehunter|''P''ir''a''te''h''un''t''er'']]{ADMIN} (Talk• •Logs) 08:06, May 13, 2010 (UTC) :The "best possible way" of depicting it sounds awfully dissimilar to the most accurate possible way of depicting it. '''ChozoBoy http://metroid.wikia.com ADMIN (Talk/ ) 14:41, May 13, 2010 (UTC) ::Okay, I agree with you on that. It's more likely concept art. But it bugs me why Andrew Jones or whoever would make it look so fuzzy and de-saturated. It certainly dosen't do it any artistic favours. Perhaps its a scan of an image? Either way I still disagree about it being wrong to edit an image in this way. [[User:Hellkaiserryo12|'''''HellKaiserryo12]]ADMIN] (Talk• ) 16:53, May 13, 2010 (UTC) :I agree that it is possible that it was a poor scan, however that could be said for any concept art. (This is definitely concept art.) However, it is equally possible that it was created digitally, because much of the team, like Andrew Jones, are highly skilled digital concept artists and Retro was certainly doing more digital work in each game compared to the previous ones. :In addition to all of this, I'd like to be able to say that the art on Wikitroid is as close to the original pieces as possible and is reliable for users looking for official work in the same way that we only provide official information. As you guys know, Wikia and Wikipedia are neutral to facts. We present the information as it is and never in a subjective light when possible. Visual information ought to follow this same format because this isn't a forum for users to create art, it is "the ultimate Metroid reference." While I am a visual artist myself, it is on these grounds that I would have to object. ChozoBoy http://metroid.wikia.com ADMIN (Talk/ ) 01:42, May 14, 2010 (UTC) ::You still fail to see my point. [[User:Piratehunter|''P''ir''a''te''h''un''t''er'']]{ADMIN} (Talk• •Logs) 03:09, May 14, 2010 (UTC) :::You mean "The purpose of the picture is to be a depiction of the planet Phaaze, not to be a piece of archived artwork"? Because right now, we aren't depicting it accurately. Head over to the Wikipedia article for Earth or any other planet and put a filter on any of the images that likely come directly from NASA and see if they'll let you get away with presenting a less accurate image variant. '''ChozoBoy http://metroid.wikia.com ADMIN (Talk/ ) 03:42, May 14, 2010 (UTC) ::::I'm referring to the fact that certain variables are subject to change. Even a picture of Earth taken by NASA, is subject to varying change do to solar EM output/reflection. The point is that: There are legitimate reasons for why the image originally looked "bad". Those could be any number of reasons listed above. And due to this chance-of-varying-change, if there is any chance at all that there is something wrong with the original uploaded image, then we have to settle for a better, more detailed looking version until it can actually be confirmed that it is in fact the original image that the image was meant to look like. I really have no idea how to simplify that any further... [[User:Piratehunter|'''''Pi''r''at''e''hu''n''te''r]]{ADMIN} (Talk• •Logs) 05:30, May 14, 2010 (UTC) I'm just popping in for a moment, because as the original author of the Images Policy, I know what I intended to write (;)). My personal belief on the matter is that faithful enhancements of images (such as levels, color balance, sharpening, cropping, saturation) does ''not make an image fanart. The key operating word here is "faithful" - I would consider Hellkaiserryo12's enhancements to be faithful to the original image and thus not fanart, however, things such as solarizing the image I would consider fanart. --[[User:FastLizard4|'FastLizard4']]{ADMIN} (Talk• •Logs) 06:24, May 14, 2010 (UTC) :Exactly. :P [[User:Piratehunter|''P''ir''a''te''h''un''t''er'']]{ADMIN} (Talk• •Logs) 07:33, May 14, 2010 (UTC) ::@PH: Except that there isn't any reason to believe that there is something "wrong" with the original image. Similarly, I wouldn't consider you qualified to "fix" an image from NASA. ::@FL: Whether we consider it fan-art or not, I don't think that the policy ought to allow for deviation from the original material. I don't think there is any reason why we ought to be satisfied with anything less than as close to the original/intended work as possible. '''ChozoBoy http://metroid.wikia.com ADMIN (Talk/ ) 17:28, May 14, 2010 (UTC) :::I understand where you are coming from. However, this concept art is unlike most of the others in that it actually and accuratley resembles the in-game model. I really do not think that Phaaze would be intended to look grey and fuzzy. You can tell that the image is not in the highest quality and is desaturated: The space around the planet isn't dark enough. Because it is so similar to the in-game appearance, I believe that edting the image to better resemble it's actual appearance in a minor way is not fan art, but giving the image back its true values. Seriously, the poor quality is not its actual appearance, its more likely a result of a bad method of scanning/saving/copying the original image. [[User:Hellkaiserryo12|'''''HellKaiserryo12]]ADMIN] (Talk• ) 17:50, May 14, 2010 (UTC) ::ChozoBoy, this has nothing to do with whether I am quaified or even capable of fixing a NASA-taken image. And I, with all due respects, must advise you to not make this into a personal matter. Insulting a persons skills (though I admit I can really only do basic things with digital art) is not exactly the best way to go about eliminating Wiki Drama, which is a serious problem here (as you know as well as I). Quite frankly do not insult me, expecially on a matter in which it has nothing to do with in the first place. It's very close to trolling in fact. [[User:Piratehunter|''P''ir''a''te''h''un''t''er'']]{ADMIN} (Talk• •Logs) 20:32, May 14, 2010 (UTC) :::PH: Unless you are working in a field related to editing satellite photographs, I don't think I could have offended you by stating that I'd trust NASA as a whole with such a job over yourself when you suggested that it might be appropriate for a Wiki editor to attempt editing such a thing. If you found anything to take personally, please don't. I picked NASA as the comparison because they are an authority, and no individual could really match up to the entire organization. Similarly, Retro Studios is an authority on the subject that we are providing objective information on. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the original image. Unless you could obtain a direct rip and demonstrate that MDb's image is somehow flawed (even though none of the others they've provided us are in question), then this would be a different conversation. :::HK: The thing is that no concept art matches up with the final products perfectly. Often, Retro Studios designs even from different art styles (let alone, color, contrast, or value) that don't match the final product. Many of the storyboards don't match the in-game scenes. Many characters are radically different. When I do concept art for my games, I go through all kinds of stages but I don't go back and try to change my original works to make it look like I didn't have to adapt my original concept into the end piece. '''ChozoBoy http://metroid.wikia.com ADMIN (Talk/ ) 20:54, May 14, 2010 (UTC) ::::I'm not going to get into it with you, that would be bad. And despite your logic, you did actually insult me. So kindly do not do that again. [[User:Piratehunter|'''''Pi''r''at''e''hu''n''te''r'']]{ADMIN} (Talk• •Logs) 21:39, May 14, 2010 (UTC)